Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:25 pm

Not sure why you guys see Carpenter a block at 1B ........ he's our current 2Bman, now 3 straight games vs both lefty & righty.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:54 pm

Tulcard wrote:Just not sure Toronto would deal him. He's kinda one of those guys you build a team around.

The question is really whether Toronto intends to re-sign him. He'll turn 33 the winter he's a free agent, so how deep do you really want to go. And if Toronto can't win now, why keep him? If they're going to keep after it, and they seemingly have the pieces to do that, they keep Donaldson. If they need to retool or rebuild, they trade him.

I think they could be convinced to retool and get maybe a Grichuk, a Wong/Gyorko, Diaz, etc back in return as parts of the deal. Obviously prospects will need to go to Toronto, but they might value guys who are closer to being ready than, say a Delvin Perez who is still three to four years away.

As far as where he fits, depending on the return, Gyorko can move. But I'm also a fan of moving Gyorko back to the role he was here for, utility infielder. I'd also like him to add the corner outfield spots to his tool bag too. He's not valuable to me as an everyday player anywhere on the field, but an almost everyday player playing a different position every day? I can dig it.

Also, Mark Shapiro who was in Cleveland for awhile is calling the shots in Toronto now. And we all know about the Cardinals/Indians trade history during Mo's tenure.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:20 am

The Cards are in on JD Martinez.

After hearing from Goold all year that they have no interest in rentals.

Don't think I'm a fan of this as the team is currently constructed...
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Tulcard » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:50 am

You never know. At least they have made a phone call. Nice to be mentioned though.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:34 pm

Tulcard wrote:You never know. At least they have made a phone call. Nice to be mentioned though.

Yep. If they could somehow get a chance to extend him right after the trade that would be fine too. But that type of thing doesn't seem to happen anymore. I don't think it makes sense to give up what it will take to get JD Martinez and then have him just leave next year for nothing.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:54 pm

Mo calls on pretty much everyone to keep tabs on market values so they know how to value their own players and any they are actually pursuing, so I assume that's standard organizational practice.

Obviously if Martinez is cheap enough, it makes sense. But it's still going to cost a good prospect since they could otherwise make him a qualifying offer this fall.

If the team isn't willing to fire Matheny by the end of the month, I think they should sell off some key assets and redirect their strategy. But this organization seems content to sit in the middle between good and bad. I'd like to see some decisive action out of the front office for a change.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Tulcard » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:47 pm

We'll see if ownership & management wants to win or remain average. When I read words spoken like "hesitant", or "investment" it makes me wonder. We want the Club to make money, but we also want to win.

We'll see, but the only way to get them to spend some of the $$ they supposedly are hoarding (not counting the new TV contract $$) is for fans to stop going to games. When they are drawing 30,000 for an inferior product they may sit up & take notice.

This team needs a Joanna & Chip Gaines makeover.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:23 pm

Eventually the fans will grow tired of hoping. I did at the end of last season. For the first time in my lifetime following baseball I felt relief that the season was over. I hated it.

Let's not kid ourselves. The Cardinals don't have a giant bank account with all the extra money they've saved over the years of low payroll. It's gone. The minute David Price and Jason Heyward signed elsewhere, that $50M for their 2016 salaries was gone. If it was just sitting there, DeWitt wouldn't be on the radio and talking about being concerned about the risk of paying Robert $60 million impacting the ability of the Major League club to be competitive. If there had been $60M in the bank, it wouldn't have affected future payroll budgets.

They're reluctant to go after what they need to win now. And they're also reluctant to part ways with players who serve no purpose for them. What we get is a stagnant organization with a clogged roster that is reluctant to take risks.

The business model that the DeWitts have built in St. Louis requires winning. If the winning stops, the profitability of the franchise stops. Pittsburgh post-Bonds is a great example. The winning stopped and the fans stopped coming and it took 20-something years to rehab the franchise to one that can make moves to try to win. Fans can buy an organizational plan. If Girsch called a press conference tomorrow announcing a fire sale and that they were targeting winning the division in 2019 with the kids on the farm, I think fans would buy it. And that future in 2019/2020 range looks promising. Why not go all in on that future and improve our odds by adding a few more top prospects?

But there seems to be no plan at the current point in time other than to not do anything too risky. Maybe they're too afraid of taking a risk because it might not pan out, resulting in losing, and thus break the business model.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:53 am

https://twitter.com/Feinsand/status/886959665862631424
Cardinals have interest in Yelich/Ozuna; Marlins sent a top bb ops exec to scout 2016 1st-rounder Dakota Hudson's last start, per source.


Personally I hope it is Yelich they have more interest in. Think he has a ton of potential that hasn't been touched yet and his upside is the middle of the order bat that the team needs. Plus controlled longer at a very cheap price and a plus defender with ability to play CF.

I might as well just stop thinking about what Stanton would look like in a Cards uniform even though it seems like it should make sense.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:42 pm

I don't know what people see in Yelich. I see a left handed Piscotty and everyone tells me he's not the kind of hitter we need. Certainly not a thumper in the middle of the lineup when he's hit double digit homers just once in 3 seasons. To me he seems to be more of what this team already has and people like the contract more than anything else he brings to the table.

I prefer Ozuna, but it's probably a buy high scenario at this point. They should have gotten him last fall.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Tulcard » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:53 pm

Ozuna or J.D. Martinez IMO.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 pm

To me, Ozuna is what we wish Grichuk could be. And I'd rather have what we wish Grichuk could be versus what Grichuk currently is.

And unless Martinez basically falls in our lap, I don't have much interest. He'd be a waste for this year's team.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:03 pm

My order of want for the 3 Miami OF is Stanton, Yelich, Ozuna. Would be fine with all of them though.

Personally I just see Yelich as turning into that 5 tool star once he gets out of Miami.

My reasons:
- I read a comparison of him to Joey Votto as a hitter at Fangraphs here. Great BB and K rates, hits the ball very hard, just needs to not hit the ball on the ground as much to have that power really come out.
- His career home/away splits. Home: .284/.366/.398/.764. Away: .299/.369/.454/.823. Pretty much exactly the same hitter (even with numbers other than just the hitting line) except for the big difference in the SLG, maybe due to the field he plays home games in?
- He is a lefty hitter who would be on a roster whose other decent options for the middle of the lineup are all RH. He isn't the fit the team needs for this year, but he has the most potential to be that guy going forward I think.

Ozuna has had a very hot stretch like this just last year and fell back down to being league average for the full season. 1st half: .307/.360/.533/.892. 2nd half: .209/.267/.342/.609. No doubt he has more power and the Cards need power, but there is a HUGE risk that he just goes right back to being league average and you have what is basically a Grichuk clone. Granted Grichuk has serious plate discipline issues that Ozuna doesn't have. I still just am not overly excited about paying for a streaky hitter who has had a great 1st half.

Just IMO and I acknowledge that I'm likely way more optimistic than most on Yelich, but I see a real potential of him being a monster with a change of scenery.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:13 pm

https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status ... 6776175616
The #Marlins are not listening to any trade proposals for their starting outfield now, saving those conversations for this winter.


https://twitter.com/JoeFrisaro/status/8 ... 3250157568
Regarding trades on core #Marlins "controllable" like Yelich, Ozuna, Realmuto, Straily, not much has changed. All still not available.


So much for that.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Topps » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:10 pm

Bob Nightengale also said yesterday that the Cardinals are out on JD Martinez.

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