Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:39 pm

R27 wrote:
chevyman58 wrote:AND BTW ............ if we go by stat analytics projections - I think the Nats have won the WS two outa the last 4 years & should be in the WS this year.

Just sayin' .............. ;)

This is measuring how teams should have done, given what they have done. Not a future projection based on what we guess they'll do.


Sorry, my terminology may be in error. I was referring to what the 'experts' had forecast by graded team strengths.

I'm out of my element when we dig into modern analysis tools. I rely on my TV remote & my peepers. 8-)
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby marteezy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:00 pm

chevyman58 wrote:
marteezy wrote: We've seen this team play horrible defense for nearly two seasons now. This offseason it was supposed to be a priority, but it obviously wasn't. We are still seeing mental lapses covering the bases, missing cut offs, bad throws, drop balls, kicked balls. On the base paths it's an utter $#!t show. You have far too many guys thinking they are faster and more athletic than they really are trying to do things that they shouldn't. Or making silly decisions while on the base paths.

Those are things the manager can and should be influencing. If he has, the players obviously aren't responding. If that's the case, his message doesn't work. Get in a person who can deliver a clear and coherent message.


So, it can't possibly be a major contributor that the past two seasons we have the least veteran presence, the youngest club, the highest % of rooks/callups, the least experienced assistant coaches & the least number of star players in forever? It can't possibly that? No way?

marteezy wrote:If they are getting the message and the teaching/coaching isn't effective. Get in someone that can teach.


These guys have been taught these same exact fundamentals since t-ball. Forever. These are basics you cite, nothing new or unique to MLB.

marteezy wrote: And based on Yadi's not so subtle instagram jabs, much of the team has lost faith in their manager.
What jabs? Where? When? Is this more 'Fake News'? How does a guy posting 'I'm not tired' and 'I miss my old amigo The Secret Weapon' turn into "much of the team has lost faith in their manager." ?? Suddenly I feel like I'm watching CNN here MT, how do you make that quantum leap??? Did I miss more Instagram posts?


To all of the above. Okay. :D :D :D
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:57 am

“The Cardinals have also had discussions with Tampa Bay about its closer, Alex Colome, and a source confirmed those talks could shift or expand to include third baseman Evan Longoria,” Goold writes. “The Rays are also reportedly looking to trim payroll, and the Gold Glove winner is due $86 million through 2022, $94 million if an option is exercised for 2023.”

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2017/12/mlb-rumors-eva ... ade-talks/
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:14 am

chevyman58 wrote:“The Cardinals have also had discussions with Tampa Bay about its closer, Alex Colome, and a source confirmed those talks could shift or expand to include third baseman Evan Longoria,” Goold writes. “The Rays are also reportedly looking to trim payroll, and the Gold Glove winner is due $86 million through 2022, $94 million if an option is exercised for 2023.”

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2017/12/mlb-rumors-eva ... ade-talks/

Longoria 5 years ago? Yes. Longoria now? No.

The only way I take Longoria is if it's a true salary dump and it's reducing the price on Colome and/or Archer.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Tulcard » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:33 am

Toward the end of the following article from the PD, Mo says they will not be looking for another starter since they signed Mikolas, but will be focusing on the "bat" and a closer:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 3bf36.html
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:46 am

R27 wrote:
chevyman58 wrote:“The Cardinals have also had discussions with Tampa Bay about its closer, Alex Colome, and a source confirmed those talks could shift or expand to include third baseman Evan Longoria,” Goold writes. “The Rays are also reportedly looking to trim payroll, and the Gold Glove winner is due $86 million through 2022, $94 million if an option is exercised for 2023.”

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2017/12/mlb-rumors-eva ... ade-talks/

Longoria 5 years ago? Yes. Longoria now? No.

The only way I take Longoria is if it's a true salary dump and it's reducing the price on Colome and/or Archer.

Exactly. Only way I want to see Longoria on the Cards is if he comes with Archer.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:53 pm

Tulcard wrote:Toward the end of the following article from the PD, Mo says they will not be looking for another starter since they signed Mikolas, but will be focusing on the "bat" and a closer:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 3bf36.html

I wish they'd signed Tyler Chatwood. Instead he's going to the Cubs for 3 years, $38 million. Rockies pitcher with very excellent road numbers.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:03 pm

The Marlins send Dee Gordon to the Mariners which is where this gem came from. The Marlins are hoping to use Ozuna as part of a trade with one of their other players, one of which is Brad Ziegler. It had been pointed out earlier that the Cards and Marlins had discussed Ziegler.

So could we be seeing an Ozuna and Ziegler to the Cardinals trade coming? Reports have it after the Gordon trade that he is probably next.

It sounds then like the Cards would ship Piscotty to Oakland. Oakland just DFA’d a player to open a spot on their 40 man.

Edit: Pause the excitement on Oakland. The spot was for Petit, who they recently signed. And it was all coming together so beautifully.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:20 pm

Where do you see that they are hoping Ozuna is next? Goold has been talking about Yelich an awful lot in his chats, kind of insinuating that he was plan B.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 pm

mhardy_03 wrote:Where do you see that they are hoping Ozuna is next? Goold has been talking about Yelich an awful lot in his chats, kind of insinuating that he was plan B.

Mish thinks Yelich stays and that Ozuna is the second most likely player to be dealt (after Stanton) now that Gordon is gone. Source

Trying to find where I read that Ozuna is expected to be traded "soon" but no luck thus far.

Edit: Found it in his replies. Ozuna will be traded soon (source). And followed it up pretty emphatically that Ozuna will be traded (source). He also said he knew where Gordon was headed, but didn't have confirmation and didn't think it would happen before Stanton was moved.

Mish has been ground zero for Stanton/Marlins reporting this winter. Done a great job sifting well sourced info from rumors and speculation.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 pm

R27 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:Where do you see that they are hoping Ozuna is next? Goold has been talking about Yelich an awful lot in his chats, kind of insinuating that he was plan B.

Mish thinks Yelich stays and that Ozuna is the second most likely player to be dealt (after Stanton) now that Gordon is gone. Source

Trying to find where I read that Ozuna is expected to be traded "soon" but no luck thus far.

Edit: Found it in his replies. Ozuna will be traded soon (source). And followed it up pretty emphatically that Ozuna will be traded (source). He also said he knew where Gordon was headed, but didn't have confirmation and didn't think it would happen before Stanton was moved.

Mish has been ground zero for Stanton/Marlins reporting this winter. Done a great job sifting well sourced info from rumors and speculation.

I've been following Mish but hadn't seen his stuff this afternoon. Sucks if true. I don't want Ozuna personally. He is basically Grichuk outside of 2017 and I don't know if that is what you can expect from him consistently. Very well could be that he figured something out and is going to be a monster since he did it in his age 26 season. But IMO he is a much bigger risk than Yelich.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:15 pm

mhardy_03 wrote:I've been following Mish but hadn't seen his stuff this afternoon. Sucks if true. I don't want Ozuna personally. He is basically Grichuk outside of 2017 and I don't know if that is what you can expect from him consistently. Very well could be that he figured something out and is going to be a monster since he did it in his age 26 season. But IMO he is a much bigger risk than Yelich.

Much bigger risk, but I also think a much bigger reward. Don't let being good get in the way of being great.

My biggest fear this winter is that the Cardinals will miss on Stanton and then spend the rest of the winter letting being good get in the way being great. Which is really where they are right now. Too much good, not enough great.

Yelich is solid, no doubt. But he will cost a ton for four years plus an option. Last winter Eaton, in a similar position, cost the Nationals two consensus top-50 prospects and a guy they'd just taken in the first round that year. Yelich might be safer, but he's much less likely to be the answer to the middle of the order question for St. Louis. That's an awful big price to pay for a guy who 1) isn't really what you need and 2) plays a position that is one of the more likely places to find what you need, all while spending more prospects that could have helped you acquire what you really need.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:49 am

See, I see the rewards for both as being about the same. And actually think Yelich is more likely to be there as well. Fangraphs had an article last year that compared Yelich to Votto with his peripherals. Basically said his problem is hitting the ball on the ground too much otherwise their peripherals are very similar. I saw a video of all of his HR from 2016. He has pretty massive power as very few of them were wall scratchers. He had plenty of 2nd deck shots to RF in Miami. His home/road splits also. Get him out of Miami and his numbers will skyrocket. IMO he could easily be a left handed Matt Holliday. Or a left handed 2017 Pham. Except you can expect it consistently. Plus he also is a plus baserunner, which while minimal, is something that this team also needs. That is a middle of the order bat to me. And if he happens to not reach that peak, he will at least be a very nice player to have. In his "average" year last season he was worth 4.5 WAR. Ozuna was worth 5 WAR last year but the previous 2 years combined he was worth under 4. Yes he will cost more but the Cards have so much depth in the high minors at this point that they have to consolidate it at some point. Giving up 2 or 3 of their top 10 guys isn't going to clean out their minors.

Ozuna peak is what we saw last year. And if he doesn't reach it and reverts back to his normal self, we just traded a top prospect for Grichuk assuming his cost is only 1 top prospect.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:45 am

mhardy_03 wrote:Ozuna peak is what we saw last year. And if he doesn't reach it and reverts back to his normal self, we just traded a top prospect for Grichuk assuming his cost is only 1 top prospect.

If we acquire Yelich, we're basically acquiring what we hoped Piscotty would be.

If we acquire Ozuna,we're basically acquiring what we hoped Grichuk would be.

It's not so easy to just assume Yelich is going to be his road splits away from Miami if he comes to St. Louis because he kills it in the NL East. He hit .299/.385/.484 in 77 road games last year. He hit .298/.387/.482 with 5 HR in 35 games in NL East ballparks (not including Marlins Park) last year. He hit just .224/.318/.316 with 1 home run in 20 games in NL Central ballparks.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:23 am

R27 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:Ozuna peak is what we saw last year. And if he doesn't reach it and reverts back to his normal self, we just traded a top prospect for Grichuk assuming his cost is only 1 top prospect.

If we acquire Yelich, we're basically acquiring what we hoped Piscotty would be.

If we acquire Ozuna,we're basically acquiring what we hoped Grichuk would be.

It's not so easy to just assume Yelich is going to be his road splits away from Miami if he comes to St. Louis because he kills it in the NL East. He hit .299/.385/.484 in 77 road games last year. He hit .298/.387/.482 with 5 HR in 35 games in NL East ballparks (not including Marlins Park) last year. He hit just .224/.318/.316 with 1 home run in 20 games in NL Central ballparks.

Nah, I disagree that Yelich is what we hoped for with Piscotty. I dunno about you guys, but I saw Piscotty as a solid regular, .800-.850 OPS, 20 HR with lots of doubles guy who was average RF with a plus arm. Yelich can be a star. Plus defender, plus baserunner. .900 OPS, 25-30 HR type of player. Basically what Pham was last year. All IMO.

There are no articles like this about Piscotty. Piscotty hasn't shown the batting eye or contact skills that Yelich has. Even when Piscotty was good in 2015-16, he didn't show the same power potential that Yelich did in 2016. I wish there was one on this season

In 2016, Yelich hit .288/.368/.542/.910 in the NL Central parks (16 G, 68 PA). For his career (67 G, 297 PA), his line is .292/.354/.472/.826, 25 OPS points better than his overall career OPS.
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