Matheny Sucks?

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R27
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby R27 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:42 am

chevyman58 wrote:
R27 wrote:It's like what I've been saying about Maness right now. He has a 1.00 ERA and 0.72 WHIP and has been the best reliever in the bullpen since the beginning of July. But he's pitched in precisely one above average leverage situation in the first 9 innings and that was bailing Garcia out of a first and third situation in the 6th inning of a game in July. The guy is pitching as well as ever, but is only being used in mop up.


Doesn't this paragraph, in 'n of itself, describe the subjectivity of how we form opinions and often interpret them as fact? Isn't it entirely possible that the very reason he's pitched "as well as ever" is because of the way he's been used, the situations he's pitched in?

Absolutely, there's also been a couple times I've wondered out loud, perhaps not on here but at least on the UCB podcast, that I wonder how many choices that get made to favor one player over another that get attributed to Matheny as "favoritism," especially as it comes to younger players, are actually as simple as the analytics department saying one player will be better than another.

So it's entirely possible that Maness has been successful because of the role he's in. But the only way to really test that theory is to put him in more important situations. And it's not like the rest of the bullpen is so bulletproof that there's no opportunity there. Furthermore, it's not like he's a rookie getting his feet wet like if he were Tuivailala or Kiekhefer or Socolovich, who I'd understand reluctance to throw them into tough spots, but he's been in Mike's bullpen for three years and until this year was Mike's go-to guy in the fireman role. There's a reason he consistently led the bullpen in the Win Percentage Added metric since Matheny became the manager. So I don't understand the reluctance to use him in that role again, given that he's been so successful with the opportunities he's been given.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:57 am

So I don't understand the reluctance to use him in that role again, given that he's been so successful with the opportunities he's been given.

Perhaps:

A: There's a cautious approach to his innings due to his injury & inflammation he's returning from?

B: In conjunction with above, as well as late-season gassed staff in immediate prior seasons, trying to save some gas for Sept/October?

Note premise of - "perhaps".
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:02 am

As noted at beginning of thread - haters gonna hate - 5 point article why he sucks:

MLB: 5 Reasons the Cardinals Need to Fire Mike Matheny

1. He’s old school to a fault

2. He hasn’t properly handled his young players

3. He can’t handle a bullpen

4. He can’t figure out how to double-switch

5. The Cardinals badly need to move on


http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/mlb-re ... yptr=yahoo
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:37 pm

R27 wrote:Just repeating what I've heard and read. Carpenter was willing to play wherever they needed him, but did not want to shift around on a day-to-day basis. Fits with their decision to put him at second base permanently once Peralta returned, even when Peralta didn't play.


Sure you noticed that after playing 2B since returning, MM had Car @ 3B last night then switched him to 1B in the last-minute lineup change. So, at this point, I'm not sure what who's preference is. I do know Mo had said early on this season that they weren't going to ask him to switch positions on a game-to-game basis. Looks like that plan is now fluid. Carp @ 1B again tonight. Unless ya go back to the Wong in the OF experiment which I'm not a fan of. Not in August or September.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby Razz » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:53 pm

I realize that with the injuries lately, there's going to be players who are moved around, but I can't ever understand having Gyorko playing third, and Carpenter playing second base in the same game. Carpenter is clearly better than Gyorko at third, and Gyorko is much better at playing second base than he is at third.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:18 pm

I've thought Gyorko has been fantastic @ 3B this season, very, very good.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby R27 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Gyorko historically has not been as good a defender as he's been this season. Whether this improvement is long-term sustainable, who knows. But he has been a plus defender at both second and third, but better at third this year between the two. Though historically he's been better at second and just slightly minus.

But Carpenter has been much better at third this season than second. Though some of that can be attributed to not really having played it in three years and having to get back into it.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:30 pm

And so let's Carp at 1B every night now.

I'm putting a check in the Sucks Box for Garcia hitting leadoff again tonight.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:31 am

Cubs are 14 games up and Maddon getting criticized for in-game moves:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ba ... story.html
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby marteezy » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:03 am

This article highlights how much of an idiot Matheny is. I hope Mo gets rid of him if let's another solid roster underperform.

http://www.101sports.com/2017/02/10/loo ... ive-facts/
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:12 am

Good to see ya MT, hope you'll participate with us more.

Not sure name-calling lends itself to initiating thoughtful discussion but we'll see.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:53 am

A little bit of it was exaggerated, but can't say the point of the article is wrong. We talked a lot about a lot of those topics last season.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:14 am

This exact same article making the exact same points and finding the exact same media explanation faults with MM could have been (and was in various forms by various writers including Bernie) written 7, 8, 9 & 10 years ago about TLR. Exact same topics, exact same criticisms.

Yet the same folks who loved TLR & blew off the criticisms now use those same criticisms as foundation to call for MM's head.

Hilarious.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:16 am

Find me 6-8 more wins last year in the Mgrs office and lay-out a path to a Ring that could have been accomplished with that team.
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Re: Matheny Sucks?

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:44 am

TLR talked about the young players being the reason for poor defense (or poor anything) when the actual numbers went directly against that? Please point me to that quote and/or article and I'll agree with you.
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