Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

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mhardy_03
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:00 am

marteezy wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:I get going for the 1 year CF and even the SS, but I don't get including Bader in it because then next offseason you have the exact same problem. Unless they are secretly down on him. Giving up a TON of control for a few 1 year rentals. Plus Escobar isn't all that good of a defender...


Escobar won a gold glove two years ago. And he'd be the best defensive shortstop in the Cardinals organization. As for Bader, prospects serve one purpose that can do in two ways.

The purpose is to make your major league club better. They can do it by being used as a trade chip to get a player that will make your club better or being used as the player to make your club better.

Bader looks to be pretty solid. But if I can use him to get a player or two that can help me today, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Jeter won gold gloves too. Escobar is a slightly above average defender. Look at the metrics in multiple places.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... ngadvanced
http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ding::none

I agree that I'd move Bader in the right deal, but doing that in this situation you are just pushing a problem a year down the road, and there aren't free agents to go after next year either.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:05 am

A trade like this would give the team an opportunity to take a look at Cain to see if they want to make a longer investment in him. Escobar would be a stopgap that allows you to achieve the goal of improving your defense. And Wade Davis is just a hired gun.

Regarding the players we'd be giving up, Wong is very talented but hasn't displayed the mental strength to put t all together. Rosie is what he is, and Bader is just a prospect.

If you can't land Fowler or aren't willing to pay the freight that may satisfy Fowler, then this would be a suitable deal.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:20 am

But the problem is that Escobar doesn't really upgrade the defense that much, if at all. Diaz/Wong vs Escobar/Diaz defensively is a minimal at best improvement and Escobar's bat is equal to Wong's at best.

The other parts of the deal make sense though, other than sending away your future CF who is 1 year away for a 1 year CF with no other prospects remotely close.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:34 am

mhardy_03 wrote:But the problem is that Escobar doesn't really upgrade the defense that much, if at all. Diaz/Wong vs Escobar/Diaz defensively is a minimal at best improvement and Escobar's bat is equal to Wong's at best.

The other parts of the deal make sense though, other than sending away your future CF who is 1 year away for a 1 year CF with no other prospects remotely close.


I see your point regarding Escobar/Diaz/Wong. I'm still bullish on Wong. I just don't think Mo is.

As for Bader. I have no feelings towards him because when I look at his numbers, I'm not overly impressed. Maybe he can help us in 2018, but if I can get a player or players that can help me today, and he's the price, I'd make the move because there is just too much uncertainty with prospects.

That said, I'd keep my assets and just make a play for Carlos Gomez. He'll be relatively cheap, he can give you some or all of what Cain or Fowler can give you and the price would be significantly lower.

If he doesn't workout, you can still make a trade during the season.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:57 am

marteezy wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:But the problem is that Escobar doesn't really upgrade the defense that much, if at all. Diaz/Wong vs Escobar/Diaz defensively is a minimal at best improvement and Escobar's bat is equal to Wong's at best.

The other parts of the deal make sense though, other than sending away your future CF who is 1 year away for a 1 year CF with no other prospects remotely close.


I see your point regarding Escobar/Diaz/Wong. I'm still bullish on Wong. I just don't think Mo is.

As for Bader. I have no feelings towards him because when I look at his numbers, I'm not overly impressed. Maybe he can help us in 2018, but if I can get a player or players that can help me today, and he's the price, I'd make the move because there is just too much uncertainty with prospects.

That said, I'd keep my assets and just make a play for Carlos Gomez. He'll be relatively cheap, he can give you some or all of what Cain or Fowler can give you and the price would be significantly lower.

If he doesn't workout, you can still make a trade during the season.

I actually still think Wong can be a very useful player to have too. Read something that several teams have asked about him and Mo's price is pretty high, so I don't think they are giving up on him, but would deal him in the right trade.

I see Bader as is a better fielding version of Grichuk as the low end of his upside. Some scouts see him as having pretty huge upside. Here is one. I'm far from stuck on keeping him, but if they trade him, IMO it needs to be in a deal for someone like Eaton where you at least get some years of control back to let the lower level guys develop and get closer to the majors. Or sign someone to CF for multiple years and trade Bader in a different deal. Not a fan of just putting a bandage on a gaping wound for a year and then having to address the bleeding next year again in an even worse FA CF market.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:49 pm

I don't understand why so many anxious to move Diaz out of the SS position. Kid's a stud. Leave him alone.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:37 pm

Langosch just tweeted that the White Sox are looking for a young catcher in their rebuild and that Carson Kelly could be in talks if the Cards go after Eaton.

Image

I'd rather overpay with other prospects not named Reyes than give up Kelly at this point.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:22 pm

mhardy_03 wrote:Langosch just tweeted that the White Sox are looking for a young catcher in their rebuild and that Carson Kelly could be in talks if the Cards go after Eaton.

Image

I'd rather overpay with other prospects not named Reyes than give up Kelly at this point.


I wouldn't touch Eaton. Listening to MLB radio a couple weeks ago, they were talking about how he's not a great clubhouse guy.

For a team that seemed to lack chemistry and any cohesion, I don't think he'd be a good fit.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:32 pm

marteezy wrote:I wouldn't touch Eaton. Listening to MLB radio a couple weeks ago, they were talking about how he's not a great clubhouse guy.

For a team that seemed to lack chemistry and any cohesion, I don't think he'd be a good fit.

Depends what you heard. I have heard the same, but after looking into it, it seems like it is mostly innocent. Basically he is a small guy who plays with an edge to him (something we have talked about the team needing in the past after losing guys like Carpenter and Lackey). And he was outgoing in showing how upset he was about the LaRoche situation earlier this year, similar to how Sale was as well. I'm not holding that against him.

From Arizona:
http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/dia ... eaton.html

From last year:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/adam- ... che-issue/
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby Tulcard » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:52 pm

Wouldn't want to give up Kelly.... 8-)
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:55 pm

mhardy_03 wrote:
marteezy wrote:I wouldn't touch Eaton. Listening to MLB radio a couple weeks ago, they were talking about how he's not a great clubhouse guy.

For a team that seemed to lack chemistry and any cohesion, I don't think he'd be a good fit.

Depends what you heard. I have heard the same, but after looking into it, it seems like it is mostly innocent. Basically he is a small guy who plays with an edge to him (something we have talked about the team needing in the past after losing guys like Carpenter and Lackey). And he was outgoing in showing how upset he was about the LaRoche situation earlier this year, similar to how Sale was as well. I'm not holding that against him.

From Arizona:
http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/dia ... eaton.html

From last year:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/adam- ... che-issue/


Yeah, I'm personally not a fan of the false hustle and fake tough guy shtick. Just play baseball and let your game speak for you.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:04 am

So .......... as it appears we're announcing Fowler @ 10am today:

Is Fowler your leadoff guy? Can Matty Baseball adjust to a different slot?

I'm imaging Carp in the 2-hole, Piscotty 3rd & ???? hitting cleanup.

I could also see 1.Fowler 2.Diaz 3.Carp 4.Piscotty Lefty/Righty/Lefty/Righty

I like Diaz up there because he puts the ball in play, gets a ton of infield hits & he's extremely fast on the bases.

1. Fowler CF
2. Diaz SS
3. Carp 1B
4. Piscotty LF
5. Gyorko 2B
6. Molina C
7. Grichuk LF
8. Peralta 3B

1. Fowler CF
2. Diaz SS
3. Carp 1B
4. Piscotty LF
5. Gyorko 3B
6. Molina C
7. Grichuk LF
8. Wong 2B
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:26 am

That would be my 1-4 as well Chev.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby Tulcard » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:34 am

Looks good to me to start the season.... 8-)
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:17 am

1. Fowler CF ....... Jay/Almora CF
2. Diaz SS .......... Bryant 3B
3. Carp 1B .......... Rizzo 1B
4. Piscotty LF ..... Schwarber LF
5. Gyorko 2B ....... Zobrist/Baez 2B
6. Molina C .......... Russell SS
7. Grichuk LF ....... Contreras/Montero C
8. Peralta 3B ....... Heyward RF

So the head-scratchers for Maddon I see are:

Who's your leadoff guy? JJay has not been a solid leadoff man.

How do you get Schwarber, Zobrist and Baez all in the lineup? Offensively I think Baez is odd-man-out in that trio.

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