Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:08 pm

chevyman58 wrote:I appreciate the early love for Reyes.

However ............... he wasn't any more accomplished than Wacha was in the same entry circumstance in '13 nor did he have 2 series' of dominance & near-perfection in the postseason as Wacha did that year. But other than the 1st 3 months of '15 Wacha hasn't been all that.

Shelby Miller was untouchable as The Next Big Thing for quite awhile around here too. We were lucky to get rid of him when we did.

And until Wacha's injury, he was just as untouchable as Reyes is now.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:45 pm

Sounds like Lorenzo Cain and Wade Davis for Kolten Wong plus prospects (names floated are Bader, Gomber, and Ellis) is getting a lot of play right now.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:25 pm

R27 wrote:Sounds like Lorenzo Cain and Wade Davis for Kolten Wong plus prospects (names floated are Bader, Gomber, and Ellis) is getting a lot of play right now.

That's interesting. Although not sure how much sense it makes to trade for Cain using Bader. Figure if you go for a 1 year guy like Cain that you would keep your future CF who is ~1 year away.

And Davis would make the pen pretty ridiculous.
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Re: RE: Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby EOCF » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:36 pm

mhardy_03 wrote:[quote="R27"]Sounds like Lorenzo Cain and Wade Davis for Kolten Wong plus prospects (names floated are Bader, Gomber, and Ellis) is getting a lot of play right now.

That's interesting. Although not sure how much sense it makes to trade for Cain using Bader. Figure if you go for a 1 year guy like Cain that you would keep your future CF who is ~1 year away.

And Davis would make the pen pretty ridiculous.[/quote]
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:29 pm

That rumored offer makes sense, if not a little high for my liking. Wong makes it essentially a cash neutral deal. Cain struggled with his hamstring last year. Davis missed a month and a half with a forearm injury, though returned strong. I could see Gomber going, generally viewed as a very underrated prospect, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to part with Bader in that deal. Not when he's the only guy in the organization to take over if Cain leaves.

The Cardinals won't come out and say it, but it sounds like the goal is to go after the Cubs this winter. Which would be some much welcomed fight.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:03 am

Cards had better load-up for the Cubs or the Central may belong to the Cubs for years to come.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:41 am

Saw this:

Now, according to MLB Network Radio, the rumored players involved are Kolten Wong, Trevor Rosenthal, Jhonny Peralta, and Harrison Bader for Lorenzo Cain, Wade Davis, and Alcides Escobar.


Wowzers.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:51 am

mhardy_03 wrote:Saw this:

Now, according to MLB Network Radio, the rumored players involved are Kolten Wong, Trevor Rosenthal, Jhonny Peralta, and Harrison Bader for Lorenzo Cain, Wade Davis, and Alcides Escobar.


Wowzers.


I'd like that deal. All of the incoming guys would be free agents at the end of the season. But, they bring in tools that will help the team immediately.

Escobar would allow Diaz to play second, thus shoring up the middle of the infield. Davis would strengthen the bullpen if he's able to stay healthy. Cain will add speed and solid defense.

With all being pending free agents, all will be motivated to play their best ball.

And with Peralta outof the picture, they can chase Encarnacion and plug him in at first, keep Carp at third and then beat the Cubs.

I like it.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby Tulcard » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:18 am

I'd want extensions/new contracts signed or agreed to at the least before doing a deal. Otherwise why do the deal? Would have to think about giving up Bader.... 8-)
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby R27 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:26 am

mhardy_03 wrote:Saw this:

Now, according to MLB Network Radio, the rumored players involved are Kolten Wong, Trevor Rosenthal, Jhonny Peralta, and Harrison Bader for Lorenzo Cain, Wade Davis, and Alcides Escobar.


Wowzers.

The first offer (Cain/Davis for Wong/Bader/Gomber/Ellis) was pretty believable to me. Especially when you consider what the Yankees got for Chapman and Davis has been just as dominant the last few years.

I feel like the Cain/Davis/Escobar for Wong/Rosenthal/Peralta/Bader just doesn't make any sense for the Royals in any way.

I fell that we've reached critical mass on this deal and it's not happening at this point.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:28 am

I get going for the 1 year CF and even the SS, but I don't get including Bader in it because then next offseason you have the exact same problem. Unless they are secretly down on him. Giving up a TON of control for a few 1 year rentals. Plus Escobar isn't all that good of a defender...
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby R27 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:34 am

mhardy_03 wrote:I get going for the 1 year CF and even the SS, but I don't get including Bader in it because then next offseason you have the exact same problem. Unless they are secretly down on him. Giving up a TON of control for a few 1 year rentals. Plus Escobar isn't all that good of a defender...

There are a lot of free agents next winter, so it would get you there, and assuming that Cain doesn't re-sign.

Yankees got #74 outfield prospect, #41 shortstop prospect, a proven MLB reliever, and a lottery ticket outfielder. So Bader and bad contracts for Cain and Davis would be a huge deal for the Cardinals. If that's on the table, Mo should be fired for not already saying yes.

Davis should be a lock for a first round comp pick next winter. I don't see how Davis doesn't get $60/4 or something like that. He is as much a lock for that kind of deal as anyone can be.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:06 am

R27 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:I get going for the 1 year CF and even the SS, but I don't get including Bader in it because then next offseason you have the exact same problem. Unless they are secretly down on him. Giving up a TON of control for a few 1 year rentals. Plus Escobar isn't all that good of a defender...

There are a lot of free agents next winter, so it would get you there, and assuming that Cain doesn't re-sign.

Yankees got #74 outfield prospect, #41 shortstop prospect, a proven MLB reliever, and a lottery ticket outfielder. So Bader and bad contracts for Cain and Davis would be a huge deal for the Cardinals. If that's on the table, Mo should be fired for not already saying yes.

Davis should be a lock for a first round comp pick next winter. I don't see how Davis doesn't get $60/4 or something like that. He is as much a lock for that kind of deal as anyone can be.

The problem is the only CF that are going to be free agents are Cain, Dyson, Jon Jay, and Melvin Upton, so that class is pretty weak for the position of need. I agree based on value alone, the original rumor makes a lot of sense though. Do the deal for Cain and Davis, and then go out and sign Turner (who apparently is no longer all but for sure going back with the Dodgers) and that's a hell of an offseason.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:36 am

mhardy_03 wrote:I get going for the 1 year CF and even the SS, but I don't get including Bader in it because then next offseason you have the exact same problem. Unless they are secretly down on him. Giving up a TON of control for a few 1 year rentals. Plus Escobar isn't all that good of a defender...


Escobar won a gold glove two years ago. And he'd be the best defensive shortstop in the Cardinals organization. As for Bader, prospects serve one purpose that can do in two ways.

The purpose is to make your major league club better. They can do it by being used as a trade chip to get a player that will make your club better or being used as the player to make your club better.

Bader looks to be pretty solid. But if I can use him to get a player or two that can help me today, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
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Re: Official: 2016 Cardinals' Be The GM Thread

Postby Tulcard » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:39 am

mhardy_03 wrote:
R27 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:I get going for the 1 year CF and even the SS, but I don't get including Bader in it because then next offseason you have the exact same problem. Unless they are secretly down on him. Giving up a TON of control for a few 1 year rentals. Plus Escobar isn't all that good of a defender...

There are a lot of free agents next winter, so it would get you there, and assuming that Cain doesn't re-sign.

Yankees got #74 outfield prospect, #41 shortstop prospect, a proven MLB reliever, and a lottery ticket outfielder. So Bader and bad contracts for Cain and Davis would be a huge deal for the Cardinals. If that's on the table, Mo should be fired for not already saying yes.

Davis should be a lock for a first round comp pick next winter. I don't see how Davis doesn't get $60/4 or something like that. He is as much a lock for that kind of deal as anyone can be.

The problem is the only CF that are going to be free agents are Cain, Dyson, Jon Jay, and Melvin Upton, so that class is pretty weak for the position of need. I agree based on value alone, the original rumor makes a lot of sense though. Do the deal for Cain and Davis, and then go out and sign Turner (who apparently is no longer all but for sure going back with the Dodgers) and that's a hell of an offseason.


Backup catcher & unless still have Adams a LH bat for the bench.

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