Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

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Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:46 am

As we saw again last night, Oh can't be used in high-leverage situations anymore. First night Rosie on DL & Oh was in the closer's role. Fortunately we scored 4 'extra' insurance runs in the top of the 9th or we'd have likely been toast again. Oh cannot be used as closer, no way.

IMO ya gotta pull Waino outa rotation. Has nothing, nadda. And now that everybody knows it, he's toast. Fortunately, for the umpteenth time, we scored a bunch & overcame his deficit with the pen holding em scoreless 'til Oh stumbled thru the 9th.

Gotta let Lyons take Waino's starts again IMO. I think ya stick with Leake for another start. Gonna have to feel your way thru closer by committee for now IMO. Ideas? Opinions? Suggestions?
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby B-Rad » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:10 am

Unfortunately I think Leake needs to be replaced as well.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby Tulcard » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:47 am

Agree, Oh isn't fooling anyone anymore. Having trouble getting the "Final Out." Bullpen missing a healthy Seagrist and now Rosenthal. Folks being exposed which is partly due to starters' shorter outings of late & being overused. As for closer, why not give Lyons a shot there?

Wainwright needs to be shut down. Leake is awful. Mr. 8.00/10.00 ERA can't keep rolling out there putting his team in a hole. Obviously need to slide Weaver in Wainwright's slot. I guess you can give Leake one more shot hoping for the best, but I'd be thinking who you can bring up if he can't give the quality start at the least. Critical time of year, but you can't keep going with the same story line if you're getting the same result. Give someone a shot who can maybe give us 5 or 6 solid I

As for Lynn....good time to sign the man.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby Topps » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:22 am

I agree with getting Waino out of the rotation as well. Definitely doesn't have it, something's off. I commend him for trying to battle through but not at the cost of hurting the team.

I'd give Leake one more shot. He's turned in to a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde case himself.

I'd slot Weaver into one of the rotation spots, his last two appearances have been pretty good. Lyons could also fill in if you end up pulling Leake as well. As far as closer, why not give Bowman a look. That was a pretty bad situation he got us out of last night. Tui could be given a shot as well. Heck of a time to be trying out closers but unfortunately it's what we've got.

I wouldn't bring in Oh or Cecil period unless it's a blow out one way or another. Those two just can't be trusted at all in my opinion.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:01 am

Topps wrote: As far as closer, why not give Bowman a look. That was a pretty bad situation he got us out of last night. Tui could be given a shot as well. Heck of a time to be trying out closers but unfortunately it's what we've got.

I wouldn't bring in Oh or Cecil period unless it's a blow out one way or another. Those two just can't be trusted at all in my opinion.


Good call, I completely forgot to mention Cecil - prolly because I'm trying to forget he's here. Worst of the bunch, awful.

Concern with Bowman is he's already made a bazillion appearances this season, most in all of MLB (60). But prolly best option today.

We have 4 of the next 5 Monday's off (that's 5 outa 6 including this week). I'm sure the plan was to get everybody some extra rest - especially Wacha & CMart. But I think now ya gotta look at maybe figuring out how to skip a rotation spot if ya need to.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby Topps » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:00 am

I completely get wanting to limit Wacha at this point. Not sure why they don't implement the Dodgers use of the new 10 dal DL and use Mayers or Gant to make a spot start for him or CMart. I also get that we're in a tight race and you don't just want to go running guys out there, going to be tough to limit guys as maintain pace/make up ground.

They do have Weaver/Lyons as options as we mentioned earlier but then that takes away from the pen, especially if Waino misses any time and one of them has to be used there. It's a fine line that Matheny and Co are going to have to walk over the next month and a half.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:32 pm

Waino: "When I bring my arm back and I move forward, the back of my elbow joint has a real hard pinching sensation," . Wainwright will return to St. Louis today to be examined by the Cardinals' medical staff. It's not a certainty that Wainwright will land on the disabled list, but it is the expected outcome for the Cardinals, who are ready to plug Luke Weaver into the rotation.

The same sensation in the back of the arm that plagued Wainwright in his last start inhibited him again. Wainwright compared it to the discomfort he pitched through in 2014. He underwent surgery to remove bone spurs at the end of that season. Wainwright said he believes rest, not surgery, will be the remedy now. The unknown, though, is how long a period of rest he may require.

http://m.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article ... its-early/
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:38 pm

Think Mayers needs to get right back on the bus back to Memphis.

Mo needs to be scouring the dumpsters for pen help.

Chris Carpenter is with the team, put a jersey on him & run him out there!
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby Topps » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:38 am

Mayer sent back to Memphis. Josh Lucas called up.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby Elite1 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:51 pm

I said the following, the other day, on a different thread... but maybe these guys are a few options:
"Who is our closer now? Oh is getting hit like a pinata. Brebbia? Tulvailala? Lyons?"
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby Topps » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:22 pm

Elite1 wrote:I said the following, the other day, on a different thread... but maybe these guys are a few options:
"Who is our closer now? Oh is getting hit like a pinata. Brebbia? Tulvailala? Lyons?"


Of those, I'd go Tui or Lyons first. I think Tui has some closing experience.

Also mentioned Bowman, but as chev said he's got a ton of innings this year so may not need to run him out there so much.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby cardinalfan4life » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:01 am

Lucas as Closer...maybe? he's pitched well in AAA. any word on Waino?
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby chevyman58 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:03 am

cardinalfan4life wrote:Lucas as Closer...maybe? he's pitched well in AAA. any word on Waino?


Waino to get an injection, then rest. Mo said yesterday "we hope he can come back & contribute this season". so he could be done.

And it's sounding more & more like Tommy John or the new 'TJ Light' surgery (I think Maness had it done) for Rosenthal.
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Re: Let's Discuss The Pitching Situation - 8/18/17 *Waino Sent Back To St. Louis*

Postby R27 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:44 pm

Not sure I'd want the "TJ Light" if I were Rosenthal. It is so far 0-for-2. Harris is a free agent after getting released. Maness is getting pounded in AAA. Might as well go full TJ and be 100%.

Brebbia, Tuivailala, and Lyons have been the three best relievers in the bullpen this season. If Matheny would give them a chance instead of going to the same struggling vets in every high leverage situation, maybe we'd actually hold some leads. Lyons has been one of the best relievers in baseball since the break and is getting a chance. Brebbia has gotten some critical opportunities. But Tui still waiting. He threw three scoreless tonight, MLB season ERA down to 2.15, combined 1.78 between Memphis and STL. He has done everything he needs to do to have gotten an audition in a late innings role, especially given struggles, but nope. Still stuck with mop up duty.
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