2017 Be the GM Thread

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2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby cardinalfan4life » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:13 am

Well, since Sunday marks the end of baseball in St. Louis, thought this should go up. What would you realistically do to improve ths club? We have some good pieces, just need a retool.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby R27 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:13 pm

As was the need last summer, last winter, and this summer, the organization needs to trim the fat. They started the process when they got rid of Broxton, Peralta, and Adams, and it's time to keep going. I think Piscotty, Gyorko and Voit are three guys that have to be dealt this winter. Gyorko especially if you bring in a third baseman.

In the rotation, I think it still needs help. It still needs a guy you feel like you can lean on to take the ball every 5th day. Who that is, I'm not sure. I get that 2-3 years down the road you probably don't need Lynn, but we do need a pitcher like him. If the Cards trade for Donaldson, which is what I'd do, perhaps you can get Happ too.

In the bullpen, I think if they re-sign Nicasio it will be fine. I like two years there for him. For a bonus, find a Neshek/Belisle type reliever to fill it out. It'd be cool with the actual Neshek too. But I think Lyons and Nicasio at the back end with Brebbia, Bowman, Sherriff, Tuivailala, Alcantara and eventually Reyes is enough.

In the infield, I trade for Josh Donaldson to start at third. DeJong sticks at SS, Wong back at 2B, and Carpenter at 1B.

In the outfield, Fowler slides to LF, Pham starts in CF, and Grichuk starts in RF. I let O'Neill, Bader, Garcia, and company compete to be the fourth outfielder. If Fowler won't accept a slide to left field, trade him.

1B Carpenter
CF Pham
LF Fowler
3B Donaldson
SS DeJong
2B Wong
C Molina
RF Grichuk
Pitcher

RHP Martinez
RHP Wainwright
RHP Wacha
RHP Weaver
LHP Happ
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:05 am

In the rotation I believe Flaherty and Reyes will be in, I think Waino will be the closer or setup guy. There’s absolutely no need to keep a young talented arm out of the rotation because of him. You will not catch the Cubs by giving guys honorary roster spots because of what they used to be.

In the everyday eight, I don’t see Carpenter or Grichuk in the equation. Carpenter is a one man island of misfit toys and Grichuk is an athletic hybrid of Mike Laga/Steve Balboni/Dave Kingman. Let Bader, O’Neill or Sierra have that spot.

Go out and get a big bat to play third and go from there.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:15 am

If I were Girsch/Mo I’d look at one of the following combos to chase.

1. Go all in on Moustakas and take a flyer on CarGo.
2. Go all in on JD Martinez and take a flyer on Todd Frazier.
3. Or go all in sign Moustakas and Martinez and use Carp to get some bullpen or bench help.

Fowler has full no trade protection, but I’d see if he’d be interested in waiving it.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:56 am

Not sure why you've picked Carp as your whipping boy this season, been on him for months now.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:31 am

marteezy wrote:In the rotation I believe Flaherty and Reyes will be in, I think Waino will be the closer or setup guy. There’s absolutely no need to keep a young talented arm out of the rotation because of him.

I don't foresee any way that Reyes opens up 2018 in the St. Louis rotation. He's never thrown more than 110 innings in a season. Never started more than 22 games. And starting the season 13 months removed from Tommy John? No. It was 13 months before Marco Gonzales even saw the mound during a game and he's a crafty left handed type, not a power throwing righty. And he's also sat for a year so whatever endurance his arm had built up, is now gone. Reyes is basically starting 2018 from scratch, so to expect him to be in position to take the ball every 5th day, even with some skipped starts, is setting the bar way too high.

I see it far more likely that he starts in Memphis to open his year, builds up innings, and then slots in in St. Louis where needed in the second half.

marteezy wrote:You will not catch the Cubs by giving guys honorary roster spots because of what they used to be.

Have you paid much attention to the Cubs this year? Wainwright had a 4.89 ERA when he should have been shut down for back and elbow issues. Came back, made three starts, had no velocity. Lackey made 30 starts this season with a 4.59 ERA. Lester made 32 starts with a 4.33 ERA.

And the Cardinals had a better winning percentage in Wainwright's starts than the Cubs did in both Lackey or Lester's starts.

And they still owe Lester $85 million for the next three years. And potentially $15M more in year four that can automatically vest. That will be worth watching.

chevyman58 wrote:Not sure why you've picked Carp as your whipping boy this season, been on him for months now.

Carp is everyone's whipping boy this year. He didn't hit up to par this season. He's pretty blah defensively. And he sucks running the bases. And he called out a teammate for making a mistake when he made one a few weeks previous and double-down on it. 2017 wasn't kind to Carpenter in a lot of ways. And it's not going to get any better if he still needs his shoulder fixed next year.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:50 am

chevyman58 wrote:Not sure why you've picked Carp as your whipping boy this season, been on him for months now.


1. He isn’t good defensively.
2. His base running sucks and that’s being kind.
3. His inability to produce anyplace in the lineup besides leadoff has a negative impact on the effectiveness of the rest of the lineup. Additionally it shows that either he has one of the biggest mental blocks ever, or he’s a selfish player that pouts and plays poorly when he’s not in the leadoff spot. Either option is not good.
4. The guy strikes me as something of a d-bag. When you are screwing up in every facet of the game, it’s a bit bold to try to callout a teammate.
5. As I’ve said for years, if you have an injury that is preventing you from playing your best, don’t play! But if you do decide to play, don’t use the injury as an excuse for stinking up the joint. Players need to be afraid of being Wally Pipp’d.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:08 am

R27 wrote: Reyes is basically starting 2018 from scratch, so to expect him to be in position to take the ball every 5th day, even with some skipped starts, is setting the bar way too high.

I see it far more likely that he starts in Memphis to open his year, builds up innings, and then slots in in St. Louis where needed in the second half. ......

And the Cardinals had a better winning percentage in Wainwright's starts than the Cubs did in both Lackey or Lester's starts.


I agree, I believe Reyes will likely start the season on the DL and be in the rotation by mid-May. He’s been throwing since June and bullpens since mid-August, so it’s pretty apparent that he will likely be able to be a full participant come spring. If he pitches well in the spring, it may be hard to keep him out of the rotation.

As for Waino, I won’t say he’s been terrible, but he’s been less than good the last two seasons and if he were not named Adam Wainwright we would not even consider him for a spot on the staff.

So, to say that he should be guaranteed a spot in the rotation is a stretch and given his performance this year and last year, I think the best move would be to John Smoltz him. Put him in the bullpen and let him be the closer. His stuff and experience can be more effective in that role than as a starter. At this point he’s nothing more than a marginal fifth starter.

And again, the goal is to beat the Cubs. They are going to add an arm or two to their rotation. And if you are comparing him to Lester, at this point I’d take Lester and his inability to throw the ball to first base over Waino everyday and twice on Sunday.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:28 am

R27 wrote:
chevyman58 wrote:Not sure why you've picked Carp as your whipping boy this season, been on him for months now.


Carp is everyone's whipping boy this year. He didn't hit up to par this season. He's pretty blah defensively. And he sucks running the bases. And he called out a teammate for making a mistake when he made one a few weeks previous and double-down on it. 2017 wasn't kind to Carpenter in a lot of ways. And it's not going to get any better if he still needs his shoulder fixed next year.


Not everyone. Some of us don't always have to have a guy to hate on until he's gone. I'm all for replacing guys, as long as we do so with an improvement. I don't wanna see Carp fall victim to what's happened to many here, get run off only to be replaced with worse performers. He doesn't need to be that victim, our next Jon Jay. We haven't had a decent leadoff man in forever, he's one of the better ones in MLB. Look at the roster comparatives & look at his stats in regards to run production involvement. He's not a guy we should toss in the dumpster until there's a better replacement.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:34 am

marteezy wrote:I agree, I believe Reyes will likely start the season on the DL and be in the rotation by mid-May. He’s been throwing since June and bullpens since mid-August, so it’s pretty apparent that he will likely be able to be a full participant come spring. If he pitches well in the spring, it may be hard to keep him out of the rotation.

FOX Sports Midwest was reporting he threw his first bullpen this week.

Lynn threw for the first time in March 2016 (5 months removed), throwing bullpens in June 2016 (8 months removed), rehab assignment in August 2016 (9 months removed) and could have returned in October (11 months out) if the season hadn't ended.

From what I can find, Reyes is pretty much on the same timeline right now. Started throwing 5 months out, bullpens 8 months out, but will have to rehab through the winter to be ready for the spring and that likely makes it even more of a question on how far you want to push him this year since he won't have a typical winter. Age helps him get back on the mound, but it also hurts him as he's not experienced on what feel he needs to have on his pitches in order to be successful.

Lynn's biggest advantage was, yes, you can be back on a mound in 12 months pitching, but it takes on the far side of the rehab estimate 14-16 months to truly be back at 100%. Having TJ in November is far better than February. If only you could schedule such things.

There is no need to push Reyes. I'd rather take it easy this year and get four dominant years of Reyes than push him too hard and risk getting one or none.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:43 am

marteezy wrote:
chevyman58 wrote:Not sure why you've picked Carp as your whipping boy this season, been on him for months now.


1. He isn’t good defensively. COMPARED TO WHO HERE THAT GETS MOVED AROUND BY THE MINUTE TO COVER OTHERS WORSE?
2. His base running sucks and that’s being kind. NOT NEARLY THE WORST ON THIS ROSTER.
3. His inability to produce anyplace in the lineup besides leadoff has a negative impact on the effectiveness of the rest of the lineup. Additionally it shows that either he has one of the biggest mental blocks ever, or he’s a selfish player that pouts and plays poorly when he’s not in the leadoff spot. Either option is not good. BOTH ASSESSMENTS ARE FAKE NEWS. WHO ON THE ROSTER OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS SHOWS BETTER RUN PRODUCTION PERFORMANCE POTENTIAL IN THE LEADOFF SPOT? SELFISH BY PLAYING ANYWHERE THEY ASK, ANYTIME? AS OPPOSED TO FOWLER, THE NEW GUY, WHO STATED PUBLICLY HE WAS HERE TO ONLY PLAY CF? WHERE, BTW, HE"S NOT VERY GOOD?
4. The guy strikes me as something of a d-bag. When you are screwing up in every facet of the game, it’s a bit bold to try to callout a teammate. SOME THINK THE SAME OF YOU, NOBODY'S CALLED YOU ONE OR HARPED TO RUN YOU OFF. YOUR INCLINATION TO JUMP TO PERSONAL ATTACK OF OTHERS, MANY YOU'VE NEVER MET, SO OFTEN IS A BURNING QUESTION.
5. As I’ve said for years, if you have an injury that is preventing you from playing your best, don’t play! But if you do decide to play, don’t use the injury as an excuse for stinking up the joint. Players need to be afraid of being Wally Pipp’d.WHEN HAS HE MADE INJURY AN EXCUSE? DAN & RICK WERE JUST PRAISING HIM FOR NEVER DOING SO.

YOU'RE BECOMING THE KING OF FAKE NEWS
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:27 am

So I’m guessing, you don’t agree with my assessment of Matt Carpenter which is fine. You love and think he’s great. I don’t and think the team can be much better by removing him from the equation.

And since you mentioned a few other players, I’ll address them as well. Dexter Fowler isn’t much better and since he has a no trade clause, we may want to wait to see what happens as far as his position goes this season. They did sign him to play CF and hit leadoff. He did acquiesce on his spot in the lineup. Maybe he will do the same regarding moving to LF.

As for horrible base running, the only player that is worse than Carpenter is Piscotty. Hopefully the Cards give him the ability to take his “talents” to another organization.

That said, I want to see the team make some bold moves that will actually make them a contender again. Matt Carpenter is not a premier player. He cannot carry a team. That said he is versatile and is the quintessential role player. But he is not a star.

We need star caliber players. That’s why I would push all my chips on the table and go for Moustakas and Martinez. With that in the middle of the order, Carpenter instantly becomes a better player because he no longer has to handle the responsibility of carrying the team.

A lineup of:

1B Carpenter
LF Fowler
CF Pham
3B Moustakas
RF Martinez
SS DeJong
C Molina
2B Wong

Is deep and dangerous from top to bottom. We need to add danger. And if it requires cutting some salary to get those two players, Carpenter’s is the salary I’d cut because you have Voit and Martinez that can play first and Gyorko can be the super sub covering all four infield positions.

And please spare me the Fake News. I hate those two words more than anything in life right now.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:36 am

Carpenter is one of those situations where because of how the Cardinals are built, he gets it harder than he would otherwise. Carpenter is a very good piece to have, but he's not a star/core player. And because the Cardinals don't have a star/core player and Carpenter is the closest thing the Cardinals have to one, he gets criticized for not being one. If we had a true star/core player, Carpenter could assume his proper role being the second or third best player in a lineup.

That said, Moustakas is not the answer. Sure Moustakes hit 38 HR this season but his WAR didn't even come close to what Carpenter did in his worst season. In five full time seasons, Carpenter averages a 3.9 WAR. Moustakas has just one of his five full time seasons top that, and he averages 1.9 WAR. And that's while being + on defense while Carpenter is not. Moustakas does not give you markedly more than Jedd Gyorko does. They are both 110 to 115 OPS+ players. Cardinals already have more than enough players who can only bring value by hitting home runs.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:46 am

R27 wrote:FOX Sports Midwest was reporting he threw his first bullpen this week.

There is no need to push Reyes. I'd rather take it easy this year and get four dominant years of Reyes than push him too hard and risk getting one or none.


I stand corrected.

I think if the kid looks good, healthy and strong in camp, take him up north and fix some downtime for him in the schedule. He’s super talented and can be an all-star caliber pitcher for years, there’s no need to waste his bullets in the minors if he shows you he can get big league hitters out in March.

If he gets hurt again, I’d much rather him get hurt in St. Louis than Memphis.

As for Moustakas, I like him because of the defense he brings to the table. A skilled glove at third will take a bit of pressure off of DeJong. And since he’s still just south of 30, his numbers at the plate have improved enough to where the optimist can see him continuing to get better for a couple years. However, his numbers lend some validity to skepticism. That said, he’d be an improvement in my opinion and Gyorko would be better in his role of supersub if you can limit him to under 400 at bats.
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Re: 2017 Be the GM Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:12 pm

marteezy wrote:As for horrible base running, the only player that is worse than Carpenter is Piscotty.


WRONG

What, exactly, do you base this statement on?

marteezy wrote: You love and think he’s great.


WRONG.

Never said it, not even close. Said "he can go". More fake news ........................

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