2017 Offseason News Thread

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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby Tulcard » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:59 am

Spring Training is not that far away. Undoubtedly want to see how we look. See if the market softens and players' demands come down. May do something....may not. Having Gregerson as your opening day closer is not the most solid choice IMO, but who knows. He and/or Lyons, possibly Tui, or one of the kids may step up and be fine. Disappointed they haven't stepped up and gotten someone to close....beginning to sound like a broken record.

The closer ST gets the more anxious I am to see how we look.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby R27 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:21 am

chevyman58 wrote:I don't have a lot of optimism they'll retain Ozuna long-term.

Well, it'd require them being the best offer on the table, which clearly they don't have interest in ever being.

Should we also point out that this glut of outfielders that they specifically talked about clearing still exists? We just traded Sierra away and replaced 5 more years of Piscotty with 2 years of Ozuna. Still no spot for Bader or O'Neill, both of whom should be ready for extended opportunities this season. This organization is in a weird spot and it's completely of their own doing.

It drives me crazy that they see the bullpen as finished. Basically penciling in Reyes to be the savior in May. I'd much rather have a solid bullpen and Reyes be a plus. It's not like they're tight on payroll. They could have added Ozuna and fixed the bullpen issue for as much as it would have cost them for Stanton and everyone would be raving about how great the Cardinals are going into the spring. But right now you basically need your minors to produce two pitchers for sure and maybe three. And not only 2-3 pitchers, but 2-3 pitchers who can step into big roles. That's a huge ask.

In their comments on what they were looking for in relief help was that they wanted to find an established closer who hadn't pitched a lot. Which basically doesn't exist and two seconds to look around the league would have demonstrated that. So they could have saved everyone the hassle by just admitting they were going to go with what they had to begin with.

For so long this organization seemed so well run. But the wheels seem to be falling apart. From not investing in making the club better when they can to failure to communicate with players to constantly setting high expectations they have no desire or ability to meet.

Cards are at $139.1M for their Opening Day 25 right now. $142.6M if you add in other money (Gyorko and Leake money from SD and SEA). Last year they had $140M for their Opening Day 25 and $148.6M with other money (Pena DFA, Duke & Reyes on DL). So any way you cut it, spending is down to neutral. After once again being told they were going to get aggressive.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby Cardsfan64 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:42 pm

Blue Jays land Grichuk from Cards for 2 arms

The Blue Jays acquired outfielder Randal Grichuk from the Cardinals on Friday in exchange for right-handed pitcher Dominic Leone and righty pitching prospect Conner Greene, who was ranked as Toronto's No. 11 prospect by MLB Pipeline.

https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/news/blue- ... -265032622
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:48 pm

I don't know what happened with Leone in '15 & '16 when he stunk, but it looks like he was very, very good in '14 & '17.

What a difference a year makes. Grichuk was a starter & our cleanup hitter opening day '17 & Pham didn't make the club.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby Tulcard » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:19 pm

Sorry to see Grichik go. Glad he's going where he can start and hopefully do well. Wish him the best. Definitely want to see the Leone of 2017.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby R27 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Glad to see Grichuk find a home. Every quote I read from him this winter sounded like he really wanted to say that he wanted to be traded.

I have a lot of questions about Leone. Who is the real Leone? Where does he slot in? But the thing I can't get over is he's 26 entering his fifth year in the Majors with his fourth team. That's not exactly the resume of a late innings guy on a division contender.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby Tulcard » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:59 am

Typical King Mo move. Banking on a guy (who is under the Cardinals control for 4 years) being able to build on the success he had last season. Not the closer we were promised, but could be an important piece of the pen.

Barring an unforeseen ST injury pen seems to shake out like: Brebbia, Bowman, Tuivailala (out of options), Cecil, Leone, Gregerson & Lyons. Wonder what they will decide to do with Reyes once he returns. Starter, or carry 8 in the bullpen?
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby R27 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:21 pm

Tulcard wrote:Typical King Mo move. Banking on a guy (who is under the Cardinals control for 4 years) being able to build on the success he had last season. Not the closer we were promised, but could be an important piece of the pen.

Barring an unforeseen ST injury pen seems to shake out like: Brebbia, Bowman, Tuivailala (out of options), Cecil, Leone, Gregerson & Lyons. Wonder what they will decide to do with Reyes once he returns. Starter, or carry 8 in the bullpen?

I expect they'll carry 8 if, as expected, Bader is the fourth outfielder. Bader can cover all four outfield spots. Garcia can cover all the infield spots. Martinez can flex 1B or COF. I'd love to see Kelly brush up on his 3B skills a little bit this spring just to keep that option on the table.

And then worry about where Reyes slots in when Reyes returns. I hope guys like Brebbia, Bowman, Leone, and Lyons pick up where they left off last season. Gregerson sees a little bit of a resurgence and Cecil gets back to form. I got more than one report for guys who were at WWU that raved about Tuivailala's poise and confidence thinking that he's got a shot to break out this year. It'd be great to see him do it. He's the guy they've been grooming for the closer's job for three or four years now.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:47 am

Cardinals will have four prospects on Baseball America's 2018 preseason top 100.

17. RHP Alex Reyes (#4 in 2017)
53. RHP Jack Flaherty
55. C Carson Kelly (#65 in 2017)
86. OF Tyler O'Neill (#38 in 2017)

SS Delvin Perez (#86 in 2017) fell off the list after being a consensus top-100 prospect last year. Probably rated too high to begin with. He just turned 19 this winter. So he has plenty of time to figure things out.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:53 am

R27 wrote:Cardinals will have four prospects on Baseball America's 2018 preseason top 100.

17. RHP Alex Reyes (#4 in 2017)
53. RHP Jack Flaherty
55. C Carson Kelly (#65 in 2017)
86. OF Tyler O'Neill (#38 in 2017)

SS Delvin Perez (#86 in 2017) fell off the list after being a consensus top-100 prospect last year. Probably rated too high to begin with. He just turned 19 this winter. So he has plenty of time to figure things out.

Why did O'Neill drop off so much? I mean I get that the average dropped off from last year, but the power increased and he still walks at the same rate. Not a big deal since a lot of our better players were never on these lists, but just seems strange to drop him 50 slots after what was a pretty solid season.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:06 am

mhardy_03 wrote:
R27 wrote:Cardinals will have four prospects on Baseball America's 2018 preseason top 100.

17. RHP Alex Reyes (#4 in 2017)
53. RHP Jack Flaherty
55. C Carson Kelly (#65 in 2017)
86. OF Tyler O'Neill (#38 in 2017)

SS Delvin Perez (#86 in 2017) fell off the list after being a consensus top-100 prospect last year. Probably rated too high to begin with. He just turned 19 this winter. So he has plenty of time to figure things out.

Why did O'Neill drop off so much? I mean I get that the average dropped off from last year, but the power increased and he still walks at the same rate. Not a big deal since a lot of our better players were never on these lists, but just seems strange to drop him 50 slots after what was a pretty solid season.

In 2016 he hit .293/.374/.508 with 24 HR in AA. This year he hit ..246/.321/.499 with 31 HR in AAA. And he struggled heavily upon promotion. A 50 point drop in batting average on the AA to AAA jump is a big red flag. And in Memphis he showed less on base ability and more power.

I don't know how you can look at his 2016 and 2017 seasons and say he deserved to stay steady. Especially when you have new players to add to the list.

The one that still makes me laugh is Reyes. He's slid in all the rankings. He was 12 in the BA midseason top-100. So what happened in the last six months that made them think he needed to fall an additional 5 spots? Especially when four guys ahead of him either graduated or dropped below him.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:53 am

R27 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:
R27 wrote:Cardinals will have four prospects on Baseball America's 2018 preseason top 100.

17. RHP Alex Reyes (#4 in 2017)
53. RHP Jack Flaherty
55. C Carson Kelly (#65 in 2017)
86. OF Tyler O'Neill (#38 in 2017)

SS Delvin Perez (#86 in 2017) fell off the list after being a consensus top-100 prospect last year. Probably rated too high to begin with. He just turned 19 this winter. So he has plenty of time to figure things out.

Why did O'Neill drop off so much? I mean I get that the average dropped off from last year, but the power increased and he still walks at the same rate. Not a big deal since a lot of our better players were never on these lists, but just seems strange to drop him 50 slots after what was a pretty solid season.

In 2016 he hit .293/.374/.508 with 24 HR in AA. This year he hit ..246/.321/.499 with 31 HR in AAA. And he struggled heavily upon promotion. A 50 point drop in batting average on the AA to AAA jump is a big red flag. And in Memphis he showed less on base ability and more power.

I don't know how you can look at his 2016 and 2017 seasons and say he deserved to stay steady. Especially when you have new players to add to the list.

The one that still makes me laugh is Reyes. He's slid in all the rankings. He was 12 in the BA midseason top-100. So what happened in the last six months that made them think he needed to fall an additional 5 spots? Especially when four guys ahead of him either graduated or dropped below him.

I'm not saying he deserved to stay steady, but I have seen guys highly ranked have MUCH worse seasons than O'Neill had either stay steady or only drop a few spots in these rankings. I was actually surprised to see that he was that highly rated in the first place.

And yeah, the Reyes thing is really odd. Clearly the good reports of his recovery drop him from the midseason rankings. :lol:
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby Tulcard » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:45 pm

Only interested in what our guys do on the field. Not in folks peering into their crystal balls, or using their dart boards for forecasting.
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:02 am

Edward Mujica is returning to the Cardinals.The two parties reached an agreement Wednesday on a Minor League deal that will give Mujica, 33, an opportunity to try and work his back to the big leagues. The deal does not include a spot in Major League camp.

https://www.mlb.com/news/cardinals-sign ... -265693750
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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Postby R27 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:12 pm

New Numbers for Cardinals:

#7 Luke Weaver
#12 Paul DeJong
#19 Carson Kelly
#23 Marcell Ozuna
#29 Alex Reyes
#38 Jose Martinez
#39 Miles Mikolas
#44 Luke Gregerson

And Mike Maddux will wear #31.
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