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Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:35 pm
by mhardy_03
R27 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:
R27 wrote:Mish with some more breaks on Stanton... Houston was involved early, but was unable to find something that worked for both sides... Giants offer is Beede, Ramos, Shaw, and Arroyo (their top-4 prospects) and taking on 85% of Stanton's contract.

Wow and the Cards topped it apparently? That is pretty impressive.

I bet the Cards have all the "eaten money" after the opt out.

There's some suggestion out there that Stanton had asked the Giants and the Cardinals about moving the opt-out to after 2019 instead of after 2020 (gets him out of the same free agent class as Trout) and moving some money from before the opt-out to after, the suggestion I heard was dropping the pre-opt out to essentially $40M/2 instead of $77M/3 and turns the opt out into $255M/8 versus $218/7. But nothing as far as whether the teams were okay with that. But I can't imagine they wouldn't be. Sets him up to be able to leave sooner if he doesn't like it.

Yeah that seems a little strange. I could see someone moving money up into the first 3 years to make up for the tax difference, but not moving up the opt out a year.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:54 pm
by Tulcard
I read that too. I wouldn't want the opt out at all if there was a choice. Is it smart to give up some of your best talent for just a couple of years of production? After all, it's not like you can count on anyone staying because they have fallen in love with STL, fans, etc., any more.

Especially when the guy wants to be in LA.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:02 pm
by mhardy_03
Tulcard wrote:I read that too. I wouldn't want the opt out at all if there was a choice. Is it smart to give up some of your best talent for just a couple of years of production? After all, it's not like you can count on anyone staying because they have fallen in love with STL, fans, etc., any more.

Especially when the guy wants to be in LA.

Honestly in this case, the package being offered would absolutely be worth 3 years of Stanton. Him opting out could actually be a good thing for the Cards if he comes here. The last 7 years is going to be the risky part that may make it not worth it.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:58 pm
by R27
Yeah, obviously it saves the receiving club about $10M to move the opt out. But honestly I'd rather pay him an extra $10-20M out of the back 7 years and keep the opt out after 2020.

If, as reported, Alcantara is the best prospect in the Cardinals' offer, I think we're going to be more than okay.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:26 am
by chevyman58
Perhaps all the Stanton discussion has been an exercise of futility:

According to Craig Mish and Ken Rosenthal, the reigning NL MVP won’t approve a trade to either the Cardinals or the Giants.

Craig Mish ✔ @CraigMish
Now told Stanton will approve :
Dodgers
Yankees
Cubs
Astros
10:44 PM - Dec 7, 2017

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/giancarlo- ... 19719.html

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:35 am
by Topps
chevyman58 wrote:Perhaps all the Stanton discussion has been an exercise of futility:

According to Craig Mish and Ken Rosenthal, the reigning NL MVP won’t approve a trade to either the Cardinals or the Giants.

Craig Mish ✔ @CraigMish
Now told Stanton will approve :
Dodgers
Yankees
Cubs
Astros
10:44 PM - Dec 7, 2017

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/giancarlo- ... 19719.html


If this accurate, I'd say it's time to move on from "patiently" waiting on Stanton. I've wondered lately if he would make a decision. With it taking this long, I believe R27 was right and that unless he gets an offer from one of those 4 (thought it was just the Dodgers) then he's going to stay put. Heck, I'd just be happy someone was willing to take on that absurd contract. For that time and money, I'd be content playing nearly anywhere, especially with the opt out he's got.

That said, I hope to see Mo and Co move on to something a little more promising. Can they just simply pull their offer for Stanton, I'd assume so?

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:51 am
by mhardy_03
It does seem like time to move on now. Hopefully we start hearing some other rumors soon.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am
by R27
It does sound like my initial read on the whole situation was pretty close. If you go back to the beginning, the whole "Stanton wants out of Miami" goes back to an article where he simply talked about not wanting to take part in another rebuild and was tired of losing. He never said he wanted out. He never demanded a trade. Hasn't spoken publicly about the situation. Hasn't tried to force Miami's hand to trade him for peanuts. The new Marlins' management, since Stanton was the largest contract on their books, wanted to move him. Then geography got overplayed by the national baseball media.

Once they got into it this winter, it became clear that the teams Stanton wanted weren't interested in paying the price and that the Giants and Cardinals were. Perhaps to his credit, Stanton agreed to meet with both teams to see if he could be swayed. At this point, seems like he hasn't been.

I think that if the Red Sox had made a serious run at him or another playoff team like the Dbacks or Nationals had, he'd already be gone. But if he wants to win, neither the Giants nor the Cardinals represent an obvious winner.

That contract is actually a pretty great contract. Even with him missing a great deal of time in 2015 and 2016, and using the AAV of the contract instead of what he actually was paid, he's been paid $5.5M per WAR. The top free agent contracts of the last five years have worked out to about $6.5M/WAR. Mid range contracts approach $10M/WAR. So he'd easily get the $295M/10 in free agency. The only problem with it was that it was signed by a team that couldn't afford it. Holliday's $120M/7 contract, when all was said and done, was worth $5.8M/WAR.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:12 pm
by Tulcard

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:19 pm
by cardinalfan4life
OK..TJ surgery, high era...whats wrong with him? there has to be a catch...did he sign like a $750,000 one year deal or something?

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:28 pm
by EOCF
cardinalfan4life wrote:OK..TJ surgery, high era...whats wrong with him? there has to be a catch...did he sign like a $750,000 one year deal or something?


Your negativity never ceases to amaze me, friend.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:34 pm
by R27
Tulcard wrote:Cardinals bring back Gregerson:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball ... 744d1.html

2 years, $11 million for Gregerson with a $5 million option that can vests into a $6 million third year.

I'm not sold on this. But it could just be visions of Jonathan Broxton being marched into games he had no business being in dancing in my head. If Gregerson doesn't bounce back, and further digging into peripherals indicate that he probably will bounce back a bit, it's going to be a long two years.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:57 am
by chevyman58
R27 wrote: 2 years, $11 million for Gregerson with a $5 million option that can vests into a $6 million third year.I'm not sold on this. But it could just be visions of Jonathan Broxton being marched into games he had no business being in dancing in my head. If Gregerson doesn't bounce back, and further digging into peripherals indicate that he probably will bounce back a bit, it's going to be a long two years.


Me neither. We're already stuck with Cecil for 3 more years at $7.5M/7.5M/7M and full no-trade protection. I'm not doing cartwheels ..............

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:01 am
by chevyman58
"The strongest he’s ever been" – that’s what Alex Reyes tells Cardinals Magazine after adopting a new weight-training regimen while rehabbing from Tommy John surgery this year.

Re: 2017 Offseason News Thread

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:50 pm
by R27
Ooh, the "best shape of my life" takes starting early this year.