Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

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marteezy
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:42 am

The guy is a moron. It's shocking that the organization has kept him around. Hopefully they show him the door after this season.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:39 am

mhardy_03 wrote: 1) Pretty sure every fan enjoyed 2011 even if they gave up on the season in August.


Nope. Nor 2006. I wish the CCH archives were up so you could refresh your memory of cf4l's posts & many others, all season long.

There were haters & fatalists still moaning & crying the morning of Game 7 in 2011. Really, there were. And the next day, and the next .........

Many, many 'fans' are the Randy Quaid character from Major League II, 52 weeks a year, regardless of results. Seriously, especially now with the vast Internet access in anonymity. I know some of em well, they exist in large numbers.

I agree MM idiotic in making those public comments. But there's truth to them. Haters gonna hate, fairweather fans gonna gripe.

He can go. Today. But let's not color him Satan for every single thing he does or says regardless.

I really, really wish we could access the CCH archives.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:00 am

"St. Louis is a tough place... There's high expectations and winning is demanded." - John Mozeliak in 2012

Give me something to be optimistic about, I'll be optimistic.

Apparently Mo met with season ticket holders and they asked about Stanton and Donaldson. Mo scoffed at Stanton and threw cold water on the idea of Donaldson.

So early on trade deadline day the #4 rotation in baseball and #10 bullpen will get no help on the opposite side of the ball at the deadline it sounds like.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Tulcard » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:27 am

R27 wrote:"St. Louis is a tough place... There's high expectations and winning is demanded." - John Mozeliak in 2012





So early on trade deadline day the #4 rotation in baseball and #10 bullpen will get no help on the opposite side of the ball at the deadline it sounds like.


Why should this surprise us? I said when this trade period started that we would probably be looking at the annual reliever acquisition, but no bat. We still have time to collect some additional outfielders though, or simply give away one of our current starters for some additional "assets!"

Disappointing for sure.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:36 am

R27 wrote: Apparently Mo met with season ticket holders and they asked about Stanton and Donaldson. Mo scoffed at Stanton and threw cold water on the idea of Donaldson.


So ........... is scoffing at Stanton a bad thing? I mean ............ come on. These are the insane fan expectations that drive me, Mo & MM crazy.

There's plenty to criticize, no need to go to Mars to create stuff. Just like MM, pound him for the valid stuff, not just any crazy griping oppty.

Stanton ................ sheesh. May as well be Russia, Russia, Russia.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:59 am

chevyman58 wrote:
R27 wrote: Apparently Mo met with season ticket holders and they asked about Stanton and Donaldson. Mo scoffed at Stanton and threw cold water on the idea of Donaldson.


So ........... is scoffing at Stanton a bad thing? I mean ............ come on. These are the insane fan expectations that drive me, Mo & MM crazy.

There's plenty to criticize, no need to go to Mars to create stuff. Just like MM, pound him for the valid stuff, not just any crazy griping oppty.

Stanton ................ sheesh. May as well be Russia, Russia, Russia.

Why would a team that desperately needs a middle of the order bat (and has said so itself publicly) scoff at a the thought of acquiring a 27 year old middle of the order bat who will likely be available? That isn't an insane expectation IMO. Neither is Donaldson, another middle of the order bat who is likely going to be available. If people were out complaining about them not going after Trout or Judge who are obviously not going to be traded, that is stupid. These are legitimate options. Scoffing at them is just showing that they aren't actually serious about acquiring that MOTO bat. Which is worthy of criticism.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:06 pm

chevyman58 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote: 1) Pretty sure every fan enjoyed 2011 even if they gave up on the season in August.


Nope. Nor 2006. I wish the CCH archives were up so you could refresh your memory of cf4l's posts & many others, all season long.

There were haters & fatalists still moaning & crying the morning of Game 7 in 2011. Really, there were. And the next day, and the next .........

Many, many 'fans' are the Randy Quaid character from Major League II, 52 weeks a year, regardless of results. Seriously, especially now with the vast Internet access in anonymity. I know some of em well, they exist in large numbers.

I agree MM idiotic in making those public comments. But there's truth to them. Haters gonna hate, fairweather fans gonna gripe.

He can go. Today. But let's not color him Satan for every single thing he does or says regardless.

I really, really wish we could access the CCH archives.


What he doesn't understand is the fact that while fans are not playing the game. We are still,just as emotionally invested in the product as some of the players. And f I'm paying for a ticket, concessions, parking and merchandise, you're darn right I'm gonna let my feelings show.

If the team is underperforming, fans have the right to criticize.

His statements harken back to his early days as the manager. News flash Mike. This isn't little leagues. Wins matter! We aren't handing out participation trophies or handing out orange slices and juice boxes.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:30 pm

mhardy_03 wrote:
Why would a team that desperately needs a middle of the order bat (and has said so itself publicly) scoff at a the thought of acquiring a 27 year old middle of the order bat who will likely be available? That isn't an insane expectation IMO.


Oh .............. I dunno .............. pennies shy of $30M a year for one guy for the next decade, perhaps? Maybe?

Hardster, next time you need a vehicle ............ are you going to spend time out looking at Bugattis & Maserattis then gripe you can't have one? ;)
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby chevyman58 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:00 pm

marteezy wrote: What he doesn't understand is the fact that while fans are not playing the game. We are still,just as emotionally invested in the product as some of the players. And f I'm paying for a ticket, concessions, parking and merchandise, you're darn right I'm gonna let my feelings show.

If the team is underperforming, fans have the right to criticize.

His statements harken back to his early days as the manager. News flash Mike. This isn't little leagues. Wins matter! We aren't handing out participation trophies or handing out orange slices and juice boxes.


And what you & others don't understand is none of this is MM's fault. None of it, which is why I get so defensive when folks attack him so viciously (generally speaking, not this thread today specifically). Folks need to de-personalize the hate & place blame where it belongs.

MM was a bad hire, a really bad hire. Mo & Ownership were beat-up & battered by enduring years & years of an Iconic HOF Manager over which they had extremely liittle control. They made a strategic decision to hire a guy they could keep under their thumb & justify by his organizational history & his playing position & player reputation. Period. That's the deal. He was broke, downtrodden and his only experience was coaching his kids' youth league team. They got a guy for nickles & dimes they could contol his every move. Seriously, what the heck MLB Manager expectations should we have or have had? The guy's got less years in coaching than I have, by God, was everybody expecting Connie Mack in this guy???

As R27 has correctly become outspoken about it's time for the DeWitts to demonstrate that they're legitimately In It To Win It every year or just to contend & line their pockets to maximum balance. That's 100% on them, and 0% on Matheny.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:01 pm

chevyman58 wrote:
mhardy_03 wrote:
Why would a team that desperately needs a middle of the order bat (and has said so itself publicly) scoff at a the thought of acquiring a 27 year old middle of the order bat who will likely be available? That isn't an insane expectation IMO.


Oh .............. I dunno .............. pennies shy of $30M a year for one guy for the next decade, perhaps? Maybe?

Hardster, next time you need a vehicle ............ are you going to spend time out looking at Bugattis & Maserattis then gripe you can't have one? ;)

Because $30M per year is still a Bugatti in today's MLB? Robinson Cano got 10/240 3.5 years ago at age 30. Miguel Cabrera got 8/240 that started at age 33. Heyward just got 8/204 as a 27 year old FA who doesn't hit much. Quite a few pitchers are making that much. And several more players are going to be making that much soon. Players get what they are worth to the market. He may not be worth all of it if he were a FA this coming season but I bet it isn't that far off. And the team has constantly said they have "payroll muscle" and will use it. Well, here is your chance.

And there is no excuse on Donaldson. Either way, it isn't an insane expectation.

If I had the money to get a car like that, and had a need for it, I would. They have the money and the need.

Please stop with the hardster stuff.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:22 pm

As someone pointed out on Twitter earlier today, Cards are #2 in attendance this year. 42,724 a game for a team that has spent about 3 weeks of a now four month old season above .500. But sure, let's insult them.

I think Matheny is showing that he is out of his depth lately.

Less than an hour to the deadline. Still crickets.

Tulcard wrote:Why should this surprise us? I said when this trade period started that we would probably be looking at the annual reliever acquisition, but no bat. We still have time to collect some additional outfielders though, or simply give away one of our current starters for some additional "assets!"

Does not surprise me at all. I called the status quo a week ago.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby Tulcard » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:36 pm

Sure wish we were wrong.... 8-)
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby R27 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:02 pm

As predictable as Cardinals hitter on a slider low and away.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby mhardy_03 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:06 pm

R27 wrote:As predictable as Cardinals hitter on a slider low and away.

Unbelievable. With the way this team is set up, they had 2 options. Go for it and get a bat and some bullpen help (or at minimum just the bullpen help). Or sell off AT LEAST Lynn so you don't lose him for next to nothing. Mo comes out and says they are not buyers nor sellers but instead are dealers. Said after the Gonzales/O'Neill trade that it would be a busy July.

And they choose to not make a single move. Not many times have I truly been upset with the front office over roster moves or lack thereof, but this is definitely one of them. And I would have been fine with either direction, but standing pat is bad.
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Re: Official 2017 Cardinals Rumors Thread

Postby marteezy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:49 pm

I think this is a huge indictment on Matheny and his inability to effectively manage the resources provided to him. Ownership, the front office,the manager and the players need to own whatever happens this season, for better or worse.

Hopefully ownership and the front office are looking at ways to get Matheny out of here. Because unless this guy has a star studded, self licking ice cream cone of a roster, he will find a way to screw it up.

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